The Strange World of Wellness, Dating Trends and Human Behavior with Journalist Madeleine Aggeler

Angela 0:05

Welcome to Media in Minutes. This is your host, Angela Tuell. This podcast features in-depth interviews with those who report on the world around us. They share everything from their favorite stories to what happened behind the lens and give us a glimpse into their world. From our studio here at Communications Redefined, this is Media in Minutes.

Meet Madeleine Aglar And Her Beat

Angela 0:29

Today we’re talking with Madeleine Aggeler, a lifestyle and wellness reporter at The Guardian U.S., where she covers everything from dating, wellness trends, and loneliness to beauty culture, relationships, and the strange ways we tried to improve ourselves. Before joining The Guardian, Madeleine was a freelance journalist writing features and profiles for outlets including the New York Times, Washington Post, Texas Monthly, DeepQ, and Fustle. And before that, a senior writer at New York magazine’s The Cut. Her stories are smart, funny, and deeply curious whether she’s investigating microbiome testing kits, AI friendships, beauty spells, lemon water, divorce doulas, or what Gen Z really thinks about dating. She also has a knack for exploring the bigger cultural questions hiding inside everyday trends. Madeleine joins us today from Washington, DC, where she lives with her husband and dog Cleo. Hello, Madeleine, welcome. Hi, how are you? Great. I’m looking forward to speaking with you. You’ve written for many different outlets over the years, from The Cut to Texas Monthly, The New York Times, Go Now, The Guardian, etc.

From Peace Corps To Journalism

Angela 1:40

Did journalism always feel like the path for you?

Madeleine 1:45

Um, yes and no. I’ve always written. I always wrote when I was a kid, and as I was, you know, in high school and college. Um, and I grew up reading all of my parents’ magazines. They had a ton of magazine subscriptions. So I read Vanity Fair, I read Esquire, I read The New Yorker. Those were a huge part of my life, but I never really seriously considered journalism because I was just like, that’s too good to be true. Like, how could I do that? That’s unreal. Um, so I always sort of thought my parents are both in the Foreign Service, and I thought I would sort of follow them into that. Um and I did Peace Corps after college, and I took the Foreign Service exam twice and failed it twice.

Angela 2:30

And thought maybe this isn’t what your path is used to be.

Madeleine 2:36

Um, well, and so I was very like sort of lost and I applied to a million billion jobs and didn’t get any. And I ended up finding this really cheap room in an apartment in Queens. And I was in DC at the time where my parents live, and I decided to just move up and I gave myself a year to sort of see if I could make anything happen. Um and I temped and sent out writing stuff, and it just kind of went from there.

Angela 3:03

Wow. So you completely, you know, self-created it at that point in your career, right after school.

Madeleine 3:09

Yeah, well, so I did Peace Corps first. So this was probably like like two and a half years after I graduated. I think. But pretty soon after, yeah.

Angela 3:18

Okay. So you started in lifestyle and cultural reporting, um, but your work has evolved into this really fascinating mix of wellness, psychology, trends, and human behavior. How did you eventually find that niche?

Madeleine 3:33

You know, uh, I think I’ve always been really curious about uh how to be a person. As I was growing up, I think I was very convinced I was getting it wrong. And I think it’s that common feeling a lot of people have where it’s like, oh, everyone else got this sort of rule book except me, and everyone else knows how to be a person except me. So I think I was always really like watching other people and what they did and how they behaved and how they built their lives and personalities. Um so I think over the years, my reporting, I was just drawn to that pretty naturally. I’ve always been sort of curious about that.

Angela 4:09

Oh, that’s fascinating. So after you started the freelance work, what talk

Learning Fast At The Cut

Angela 4:15

us through your career, you know, briefly a little bit after that.

Madeleine 4:18

Yeah. So I was um, as I said, I worked as a temp for probably like a year and a half when I first moved to New York. Um and while I was doing that, I was sending out writing to, you know, this was a kind of a at the time it felt like a pretty good time to be trying to get into journalism and writing because there were all of these outlets that were kind of smaller. I I my first published piece of writing was for Hello Giggles. Do you remember that? I do remember that. That’s great. I know, and I think they paid me $40. And what did you do with all that money? You know what though? I don’t think I’ve felt as excited about any paycheck I’ve gotten since because I remember just sort of like walking down the street after being like, I’m a paid writer. I’m the coolest thing you can possibly be. I was just like on cloud nine. Um so I was sort of sending out places and I ended up doing a lot of work for Hello Gugles and for Bustle. And after doing that for a while, a girl I went to college with was writing for the cut, and she said, Hey, we need a night blogger. Would you be interested? And I said, Absolutely, I loved the cut. Um and I don’t know how they allowed this job to exist, but I was basically like a first-time journalist. And I would log on at like 5 p.m. My shift was like 5 p.m. to 11, I think it was. And I had no editor, I had basically no oversight. I was just identifying stories, writing them, and publishing them straight to the site and just like waking up the next morning and hoping I hadn’t gotten New York Mag in trouble. Like, oh my goodness. It was like, I don’t know, it’s so crazy in retrospect. But the time I was like, okay, here I go. And I did that for a few months and then got hired full-time by them. And when I first started, this was sort of tail end of the sort of gawker blogger era. And so I was the I was supposed to write five blogs a day when I first started. So the output was like pretty crazy.

Angela 6:31

Yes.

Madeleine 6:32

Yeah. But I think that was like an incredible experience. I think that was the best experience I could have possibly had is like a first-time journalism job because um when you’re turning out so much, it forces you to A, of course, learn to write quickly, but also have a really clear point of view, have a voice. Um, and I think it makes you like not so precious about your writing because you’re like, okay, on to the next, on to the next.

Angela 6:55

Yeah, that’s great. So that was a wonderful experience. So then how did you land at the Guardian?

Texas Monthly Leap And Going Freelance

Madeleine 7:02

So I was at the Cut for I think three and a half years, roughly. And um during the pandemic, I was one of the many, many people who moved down to Austin. And this is kind of a psycho story to tell, but I’ll just tell it. I was like, I really wanted to do, I was having a great time at the cut and at New York Mag. I made great friends there, but um, I wanted to do more long-form journalism. And I didn’t really know how to do that because I I wasn’t sure. I anyway, I wasn’t sure how to do that. And there’s not a lot of it. There’s not a lot of it. And it’s like such a big investment for every outlet. Like I understand why there’s not a lot of it. And it’s like not like you can just sort of walk into the New Yorker and be like, let me write a big long-form piece. Um so I was sort of looking around at different places that were publishing what I thought was really cool work, and I love, love, love Texas Monthly. I still to this day, I think they have some of the best long-form journalism out there. And a friend of mine had moved down and was working as an editor there, and I called her, and she was like, Well, look, like we just had sort of a big hiring push. Like, how about you call me again in a year and we’ll sort of see how things land? And I was like, Yeah, sure, sure, sure. And in my mind, I’m like, I’m not waiting a year, that’s crazy. Um so during the pandemic, my lease was about to be up, and I was like, I guess I’ll just move to Austin. And I just moved down and I like called her and I was basically like, surprise I’m here. Can I write for the magazine? She was like, oh my God. Um and I did. Um, so it did work out. Um, and once I got writing with them more regularly, then I went freelance and um I was freelance for about two and a half years, and uh that was really wonderful and it was really tough. I don’t think I’m really built for it because it requires so much just like personal admin and like chasing people down to pay you. So that was a really great experience and a really tough one. And actually, I had decided to leave journalism. I was so over it and I was like, I’m done, I’m done, I’m done. And actually, the same editor at Texas Monthly uh sent me the job listing for the Guardian job and was like, Well, I think you would be really good for this. And so that’s how I ended up here.

Angela 9:30

And the rest is history. How long have you been there now? Now I’ve been here a little over two years. Okay. So one thing I love about your work is that even when you’re covering something funny or seemingly niche, there’s often a bigger question underneath it about how we live or why we behave the way we do. What tends to catch your attention as a story?

How She Chooses Story Ideas

Madeleine 9:52

I think the two things I’m really drawn to are absurdity and passion. And because people are so weird, but also we’re all kind of the same. And um, you know, we all want to belong, we all want to feel seen. Um, we want to build a life that we feel like is meaningful, but how people go about that is so wildly different. And so I think like my favorite stories are the one that are the ones that get at those sort of deeper truths, but they’re they’re like packaged in a wild way. Like it’s like, you know, I’m talking to people at a snake convention or I’m wearing an AI companion or whatever. And it’s like really absurd things that let us get at these bigger passions and and things we all have in common.

Angela 10:49

So how do you find these stories? You’ve covered everything from, you know, you mentioned a few, but from AI friendships to face yoga to divorce doulas.

Madeleine 10:59

Um, you know, now this is an annoying answer, probably, but now I just kind of like trust my gut and I I notice what I want to know more about and what I want to look into. And you know, the reason I say that is because that’s not actually how I started trying to find stories. When I started, I really thought of it more from the reader’s perspective. And I would think about like what do readers want to be seeing? Will will our audience think this is interesting, which of course you still have to ask yourself to a degree, right? But that was really my focus. And I think doing that, you add a level of remove between yourself and your own interests. And I think readers can tell when a writer is like not as invested in a story. And I think they can also tell when a writer is really into something. And yeah, I think it’s really you have to just trust that, like, oh, I saw something and I I want to know more. And then you just kind of have to follow that.

Angela 12:04

Yeah. Do a lot of them come from PR professionals or things, you know, or friends, or what you see, what you see in day-to-day life?

Madeleine 12:14

Um, a lot of it, a lot of it is just like me living my life and being like, I wonder how I should do this. Um uh that’s especially at The Guardian. But um have come from PR professionals. One I’m working on now did, and it was about um sperm maxing. Like I actually, it was like not one person in particular, but I saw it in my inbox a couple of times and I was like, Okay, like I saw it the first time, and I was like, okay, I don’t know that I need to look into that. And then I saw it in my inbox another time and another time, and I was like, okay, something, something’s up.

Angela 12:51

Okay, so along those lines, what’s the what would you define as the weirdest uh story you’ve done, or

The Strangest Assignments So Far

Angela 12:58

or maybe a couple?

Madeleine 12:59

Oh, I mean, there’s stiff competition for that. Um uh I went to a naked dinner party in New York. Like there’s a company that throws naked dinner parties, and that was that was definitely unusual.

Angela 13:18

Did you have to participate?

Madeleine 13:20

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so did the photographer. Like it was so funny. I mean, it completely makes sense. But like as we were sort of talking to them about how we were gonna do this, they were like, it, you know, people might feel uncomfortable if they’re all naked and there’s this one clothed person here. So would you and the photographer be okay being naked as well? And we were both like, let’s do it. Like, great.

Angela 13:44

Amazing.

Madeleine 13:46

I did say my one thing was I talked to the photographer and I was like, please, I don’t want to be in any of the photos. So right.

Angela 13:52

Yeah, okay. That’s understandable.

Madeleine 13:54

Yeah. Um, but I think, yeah, I think that that is definitely one of my weirder ones. My first Texas monthly one. I went down to a town in Texas that was having a really big problem because um an alligator had was living in this uh little sort of creek outside a dollar store. And people, it had become sort of a local celebrity and people were like feeding it. And the town was basically like, we don’t know what to do about this alligator. So I got to go down and sort of talk to everyone about the alligator outside the dollar store.

Angela 14:35

That’s great. That is that is great. What happened to the alligator, Tino?

Madeleine 14:39

It was rescued. It was there’s a there’s a a separate story could have just been the alligator rescue guy and his sort of operations, but he came and and rescued the alligator and the alligator’s in a very nice home now.

Angela 14:51

Okay, okay,

Wellness Reporting With Healthy Skepticism

Angela 14:52

good. You also write about wellness and in a way that feels curious, but also skeptical. So, how do you balance your taking trends seriously without taking them too seriously?

Madeleine 15:05

I think that’s how we all feel, right? I I think we want to feel well, and we also don’t want to feel like we’re being hoodwiged. Um, so I think that’s a balance that all of us are are bringing to wellness right now. And it’s especially hard because there’s so much information and there’s so much content out there. Yes. That teasing it apart feels really hard. So I think any piece of content, you know, people look at it and it’s like, oh, is this true? It sounds really cool, but can I believe it? I think we’re all doing that mental math all the time.

Angela 15:44

Yes, that’s a really good point. What wellness trend have you investigated that genuinely surprised you?

Madeleine 15:50

This isn’t a trend, but there is one story that genuinely changed my life. Um, and this was a couple of years ago. I wrote a story about this book that came out, and it’s by this really, brilliant Cambridge neuroscientist named Dr. Mitu Stroni. And it’s called Hyper Efficient. And so I got it, obviously, because I was like, I’m gonna become even more efficient. Um, I’m I’m I’m gonna be so great at everything. And I read it, and to my dismay, the book was all about the importance of sort of rest and not overdoing it. Um, and candidly, I was furious. I was like, I don’t want to rest, I just want to work harder. Um and you know, one of the things that really stayed with me is she was like, uh, when we’re working really hard, you know, I’m sure you’ve experienced this, I think everyone has, where you’re working really hard, you’re locked in, but then you get to a point where you just hit a wall. Like you’re like, I’m just like, there’s no gas in the tank. Um and I think a lot of people’s instincts, certainly what my instinct was, was to just like push through that. Like, no excuses, I’m just gonna keep working hard, whatever. Um and she’s like, look, from a neuroscientific perspective, that’s the worst thing you can do. Like your work, the quality of your work drops off so precipitously, like you’re not doing anything good, you’re just getting more tired. The best thing you can do is like go for a walk or do something else or take a nap. Like this sort of grind through it attitude is so counterproductive. Um, and so the book had a lot of other things about basically the argument was like notice when your body is the most efficient, is the most productive, and try to be really productive then. But once you start to sort of like lose that energy, like don’t force it. Um, and so for me, I’m like very productive, like first thing in the morning. And so I tend to work best on days where I like like start writing before work starts. And I don’t always do that. I’m always like, well, maybe today I’ll be different, but it’s not. Um but really just sort of going with your body and listening to your body. And I was convinced that doing this would make my productivity like completely drop.

Angela 18:06

Yeah.

Madeleine 18:07

And it hasn’t at all. And if anything, I think my work is a lot better. And if my work isn’t better, it feels a lot better to do. So unfortunately, taking breaks really does help. I’m I’m so sorry to break the news.

Angela 18:18

No, I know. I feel like I need that book because I am completely one who does not rest ever. Although I don’t know if I need the book because it’s gonna make me

Face Yoga Was A Hard No

Angela 18:25

mad too, probably. But yes, I will have to check that out. And on the flip side, what’s a trend or you know, story where you finished reporting and thought, absolutely not?

Madeleine 18:37

I cannot describe how much I hated face yoga. It was awful. I downloaded like this face yoga app that was first of all such a bummer because it was like the questions were like, Do you feel like your partner doesn’t think you’re that hot? And I was like, Jesus, like, oh my god. Um and it was just like so weird. And I actually I think what was shocking about it was I thought I would really like it because I love massage. Um, I love massage, I love yoga. I don’t have an issue with like touching my face or anything. I know a lot of people like hate that. I don’t have that issue. But something about like the uh I started doing it and I was like, I actually hate this so much. Like it felt I just like pulling my skin in that way was really unpleasant. And then a lot of it was like making you make these weird facial expressions that didn’t feel good. So I it was I mean, some people love it, good for them. Apparently the Kardashians

Strength Training And GLP-1 Relationship Shifts

Madeleine 19:35

do it, but wow, I hated it so much.

Angela 19:37

Let’s get to now. We won’t add that one to the list right now. Yeah. So at The Guardian, you’ve covered loneliness, dating culture, wellness, relationships, technology. Um, as I mentioned earlier, even whether AI friends can help people feel less lonely. What themes or stories are you most interested in right now?

Madeleine 19:56

Right now, I’m really, and I have been for a while, I’m really interested in um strength training and weightlifting. I think like we’re really seeing like a huge shift in how we approach fitness right now, and especially how women approach fitness.

Angela 20:12

Yeah.

Madeleine 20:13

Um, and it’s selfish, of course, as are all stories, because um I also really love strength training. Um, so I just find that really fascinating. Um, and then I’m really fascinated by GLP ones, but specifically the stories that I think are are incredible are the stories about how GLP ones affect people’s relationships, like with themselves and with each other. Um and there was a story a while ago, I I think it must have been a a year or two ago now in the New York Times by Lisa Miller, who’s fantastic. And it was about a married couple where uh the wife went on a GLP one and the husband didn’t. And it just sort of looked at how that affected their relationship. And I thought it was like really beautifully done and just so fascinating. And I think we’re just seeing the physical results are really interesting, but I think the psychological results are really interesting to me right now.

Angela 21:11

Yes, that wow, I haven’t thought about it that way either. Are there um common mistakes you see in wellness or lifestyle pitching if we talk about, you know, from a PR perspective?

Madeleine 21:24

It’s funny because um my husband works in communications, so we talk about this. Yeah. So and he works in communications for a nonprofit. So it’s a little bit different because it’s like a really a super niche area. Um, but we talk about pitches kind of a lot. And one of my pet peeves is when someone emails with no pitch at all, and it’s just what are you working on? Um, because I just feel like you’re not my boss.

Angela 21:54

I don’t

What Makes A Pitch Worth Reading

Angela 21:55

have to report to you. Yes. I have to say, in 20 some years, I’ve never sent that email. I’m glad to say.

Madeleine 22:02

Well, and and you know, in their defense, I’m sure it’s coming from a place of like I have a ton of resources. I can help it in in a lot of ways. Like I understand that’s probably where it’s coming from, but I’m just like, I’m not gonna send you my like workflow and like go from there. Um so I think basically the ones that I tend to respond to the most have a a pretty clear uh a pretty clear pitch, whether that’s a topic or I like to see a pitch where it’s like there’s a specific um expert who they’re pitching and like what they can talk about. Um so those are ones I tend to respond to. But I I would also say though, like um well, actually, like our section, if if you’re pitching a product or something, yeah, I would say there are verticals that are like your wire cutter or the guardian has the filter that are more product focused. So it depends on what you’re pitching. But if it’s a product, we really try to like steer away from getting products and using them. And if we do, like we buy them ourselves. Um but something like a filter, like a wire cutter, like a strategist is probably better for those kinds of pitches.

Angela 23:14

Right. What did you what were you surprised to learn about um Guardian when you started working there? Sorry if this is annoying. People are so nice.

Madeleine 23:23

Like that was just like it’s such an incredibly nice workplace. Um so that was, I think. I mean, I I’ve had very I’ve been lucky enough to have very nice colleagues over the years, but I was just like, oh my god, everyone is like the nicest person I’ve met in my life. This is incredible.

Angela 23:42

Well, that is that sounds great. That’s the perfect place to be, right?

Madeleine 23:47

Yeah, I’m I I’m reaping the rewards. It’s wonderful.

Angela 23:50

That is wonderful. I must ask, um, when we talked about the wellness thing you may never do again, the face yoga. What is something that you’ve secretly loved besides the strength training or something else that you’d you know want to do?

Madeleine 24:03

I mean

The Guardian Culture And Simple Wellness

Madeleine 24:05

my editor and I talk about this a lot. I think my sort of quote unquote wellness routine is extremely boring. And unfortunately, like, because that’s what works, you know, like we talk about how we publish all these stories and probably like 95% of them boil down to like get enough sleep, eat sort of a variety of foods, move your body, hang out with your friends. And if you can do those things, like you’re in good shape. So I I wish I had something really cool and fun to recommend, but I think like my wellness reporting has shown me again and again that it’s like it’s the boring stuff that works and it’s the boring stuff that matters.

Angela 24:48

Yeah, that’s great to to to consider and think about as you’re looking at all of these. I mean, like you said, there’s so much information coming at us from social, from new, I mean, all over the place of try these new things, do these, do these new things, but that’s always great to put it into perspective. What are you most excited to be reporting on now?

Madeleine 25:07

Um, actually, you know, we’re talking about strength training. I’m doing my first bulk for strength training where you sort of eat in a caloric surplus, you eat more to gain muscle. Um, so I’m doing that. I have been doing it for several months, and I’m sort of reporting a story on it as well. And like that experience for women. So I’m very excited about that in part because I’m doing it. And I’m like, it’s one of the great things about being a wellness reporter. You can be like, I want to do this thing, and then you’re like, oh, but like it’s for work.

Angela 25:38

Yeah. Have you uh how’s it going? Are you not allowed to say that yet until the story?

Madeleine 25:43

It’s a really interesting experience because I mean it go, I mean, for me, it goes against so much of how we’re programmed as women. So I think it’s just sort of like there was definitely this weird initial sort of psychological,

Bulking For Muscle Plus Future Goals

Madeleine 25:58

like, wait, what am I doing? That’s crazy.

Angela 26:02

Right. Like I’ve been trying to always, you know, keep my calories, my food intake low my whole life.

Madeleine 26:08

I know. And I’m now like, not only am I like, oh, I I I’m like intentionally trying to gain weight, basically. Like it’s it was um, I think it’s very cool. It’s a great experience, but it was definitely has taken me a minute to sort of like adjust to that.

Angela 26:24

Yes, we’ll have to watch for that one for sure.

Madeleine 26:26

Yeah.

Angela 26:27

What are some of your goals uh professionally?

Madeleine 26:30

That’s a great question. I think like this is such an ego thing for a writer. Like at some point I would love to write a book. I don’t know what that book is. Um so I’m always kind of ruminating on that in the back of my mind. But honestly, sort of just to keep doing what I’m doing, I feel really lucky where I am. Um, I love my beat. So um my goal is to just sort of keep enjoying it. You know, it’s media is so um unpredictable. So I’m in a pretty good spot right now. So right now I just I really want to enjoy it.

Angela 27:03

Yeah, and I think that book could be all the quirky stories you’ve tested over time or things you’ve learned. Yeah. So then how can our listeners uh most follow your work? Connect with you best online?

Madeleine 27:15

To connect online, my um guardian, there’s my guardian email, which is madelyn.agler at thegardian.com. I’m also on blue sky. Um, and I think that’s MMAgler. And that’s really where I am. I’m not really on Twitter and Instagram anymore, which I would say is a great wellness tip.

Angela 27:40

Thank you so much, Madeleine. This has been

Where To Follow Her And Wrap

Angela 27:42

wonderful. Thank you so much, Angela. This was really fun. That’s all for this episode of Media and Minutes, a podcast by Communications Redefined. Please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe to our show. We’d love to hear what you think. You can find more at CommunicationsRedefined.com/podcast. I’m your host, Angela Tuell. Talk to you next time.